And the other Super Bowls he would have gone on to win would have sealed it. Agree the play alone didnt lose the game for the Raiders, but the emotional swing in the game after that call was reversed was obvious. As a Raider fan, I have a different take on the matter. Incomplete pass? By Pereiras estimate, its been called 120-150 times since it was called in the Raiders-Patriots playoff game (see 2005 story linked in my earlier post) and many times before then, so every team has experienced it MULTIPLE TIMES, though admittedly with lesser importance than that famous instance. The Tom Brady rule states that a defender on the ground who has not been pushed into the quarterback cannot lunge at a quarterback's knee or lower legs. Should it be changed?surebut that wont reverse history. [1], The tuck rule was also enforced in an NFL playoff game on January 9, 2011, between the Kansas City Chiefs and the Baltimore Ravens. The ball should not have to be loose in the act of passing for it to be ruled incomplete. Why? First of all, I agree, its time for the ruled to be changed! It's been 10 years since the infamous tuck rule game, and the rule itself reared its ugly . I love how people act like the Pats won against the Raiders only because of the tuck rule. If it is taken out, you have to decide when the forward arm motion stops being a pass and starts to become fumble territory. Unfortunately, most fans will never take the time to see why the rule is there in the first place. Get over it, pathetic Raiders fans. If contact causes the ball to become loose, its a fumble. whats a td what isnt (calvin johnson, arian foster and someone else) On fourth down and 4 from the Raiders' 28, Brady hit Patten for a six-yard completion. Charles Woodson on the blitz knocked the ball from the QB's hand and the Raiders retrieved it, with the on-field decision a fumble and therefore a win for Oakland. According to the exact wording of the rule, when a quarterback goes to pass the football, his hand is considered in throwing motion until the ball is completely stopped or pulled down in attempt to begin a run. On January 19, 2002, NFL history was changed forever. In explaining the reversal to the crowd, Coleman stated that the ball was moving forward at the time it was dropped. 4. During ESPN's new 30 for 30 documentary called, "The Tuck Rule", the future Hall of Fame quarterback admitted that if he didn't lead the New. The arm is moving forward in both cases. But it was a rule. IF that scumbag didnt have money on the game and the raiders win then the Raiders go on to win the superbowl for the next 3 maybe 4 years Officials reviewed the play, and eventually determined that even though Brady had seemingly halted his passing motion and was attempting to "tuck" the ball back into his body, it was an incomplete pass and not a fumble under the then-effective NFL rules. https://t.co/0qXIiq5Ux9, Brady said, "The Tuck Rule game against the Raiders," then looked around as if to make sure no one was listening, adding, "might have been a fumble. For a decade as the NFLs head of officiating, Mike Pereira was the man who had to come forward publicly and defend the infamous tuck rule and the referees who applied it under controversial circumstances. Were talking, of course, about the infamous Tuck Rule game, in which the New England Patriots, thanks to a late Tom Brady fumble being overturned because of an obscure rule, beat the Oakland Raiders to advance to the 2002 AFC Championship Game. For one, do you know anything about football? Its really more sadness and pity than anything. I love how people act like the Pats won against the Raiders only because of the tuck rule. raidernationbaby says: NFL Coach's Challenge At any time before the two-minute warning of each half or overtime period, the head coach of either team can signal a challenge by throwing a red flag onto the field. How is the ref supposed to determine the exact moment when an arm moving forward transitions from a throwing motion to a tucking motion? i lilke the rule n think its a good one but wouldnt care to see it removed.. fumbles in general. A backward pass = fumble. The officials rule fumble. The Tuck Rule rules that his pass was incomplete. I am truly staggered by the impeccable logic and flawless analytical acumen demonstrated by your post. Raiders middle linebacker Greg Biekert then fell on the loose football. Repeat three to five times. This weekend, ESPN will debut "The Tuck Rule," a "documentary" in the sense that it's a series of real people discussing, dissecting and squabbling over a real historical event the fateful. The latest installment of ESPN's "30 for 30" series, "The Tuck Rule," examines the circumstances that led to the (in)famous incident in the waning stages of a game in the 2001-02 NFL playoffs.. This cerebral praise thing, followed by exploiting an opponents weaknesses is just getting out of hand. [17], Up to his retirement at the end of the 2018 season, Coleman officiated 265 more NFL games, including 21 more involving the Patriots, but none involving the Raiders. Study with Quizlet and memorize flashcards containing terms like "I volunteer!" I gasp. What better way to get the nations idea of America and Freedom and Liberty and restore confidence in this country than to have the Red, White, and Blue team win the super bowl? Enjoyable result! As it happens, his last game involved the Patriots. It applied if the quarterback moved his arm forward in a passing motion, but then changed his mind and tried to keep hold of the football rather than attempt a pass. In most cases where the Tuck Rule has been applied, the call would have been a fumble in those other associations. A source told Ian Rapoport on Wednesday that the elimination of the "Tuck Rule" passed overwhelmingly at the NFL Annual Meeting in Phoenix. Losing on a fluke (and possibly bad) call is much more. I dont give a damn if you, the rule book, Mike Pereira, Roger Godell, The Fonz, the Waterboy, Radio, or every cafeteria lady in America says that it was an incomplete pass.the replay clearly shows it was a fumble! So please, for the love of god, SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!! No more "was his arm going forward?" Yeah, this is the problem. Mike Pereira will never admit fault with regards to the rules or officials in public. Karma as they say, Is. With the Patriots heading to the Black Hole to meet the Raiders on. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. That gave Brady the starting role over veteran Drew Bledsoe entering the 2002 season and the rest is history. In the 4th quarter, Raiders' cornerback Charles Woodson tackled Patriots' quarterback Tom Brady, causing what initially appeared to be a fumble that was recovered by Raiders' linebacker Greg Biekert. It's the way it's worded. I would support a rule change, although it took me a long time to get to this point, Pereira said. end of story. Doesnt that now become a fumble because the passer held onto the ball past the predetermined point of a throwing motion? While the Patriots were slightly out of field-goal range, Brady dropped back to pass, with no open receivers. Kicker? After two incomplete passes and a Brady scramble, Vinatieri came on to hit a game-tying 45-yard field goal through the snow with just 27 seconds left, a kick considered to have been one of the most difficult kicks in NFL history,[15] or the most "clutch-kick ever. The tuck rule resulted in a controversial finish to an AFC divisional playoff game on January 19, 2002, between the New England Patriots and the Oakland Raiders. Jan. 19, 2002 is a date that will always live in infamy for Raiders coach Jon Gruden. "The Tuck Rule Game." The ruling: an incomplete pass. The tuck rule was called in Week 2 of an NFL regular season matchup on September 23, 2001, between the New England Patriots and the New York Jets. If the Raiders pull out the Tuck Rule game, they are probably losing one of their next two games, and doing so in embarrassing fashion. When discussing Tom Brady and the "Tuck Rule," Ray Lewis was referring to the game-changing call made by the referee during the 2001 AFC divisional playoff game between the New England Patriots and the Oakland Raiders. Whoever devised the Tuck Rule was drinking more than thier fair share of Scotch that day. "[1] Pereira said the rule came up in games about 12 to 15 times per season and explained that despite its unpopularity, the competition committee had been unable to come up with a better rule. The Jets tied the game with a field goal on that drive before going on to win 103. It was 10 years ago. Arm is moving forward, still in the throwing motion, they hit his arm and he let's go of the ball early and it hits the ground. Brady ended up completing 26 of 39 passes for 238 yards in the second half. Football legend Tom Brady has admitted that his career could have gone very differently if it wasn't for a ruling which went his way in 2002. It's been 10 years, but the memory of the "Tuck Rule" game is fresh in some of the participants' minds, writes Greg Garber. My god. Terry Kirby returned the ensuing kickoff 22 yards to the Oakland 37-yard line and the Raiders produced a 10-play, 43-yard drive to score on a 38-yard field goal from Sebastian Janikowski. [9], Raiders vs. Patriots ("Tuck Rule Game") (2001), Last edited on 27 December 2022, at 03:51, AFC divisional playoff game on January 19, 2002, "New York Jets at New England Patriots September 23rd, 2001", "Crookdnose's Favorite Football Memory: The Snow Bowl", "Bell: NFL Can Finally Tuck Away Horrible Rule", "2016 Official Playing Rules of the National Football League", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tuck_rule_(American_football)&oldid=1129789094, This page was last edited on 27 December 2022, at 03:51. Tuck Rule AKA F@cked Rule because someone always gets F@cked as a result of this rule!! poorpathaters says: By. Once the arm has moved forward with ball in hand, it is a pass attempt even after the arm has stopped moving forward (even voluntarily), until the time when the ball is tucked away, which means presumably not just in the QBs hand but protected by an arm. "The five most significant plays in recent NFL history", "The NFL's 10 Greatest Postseason Games of the 2000s", "NFL rescinds 'tuck rule' The Boston Globe", "New York Jets at New England Patriots - September 23rd, 2001 - Pro-Football-Reference.com", "Holy Tuck: An oral history of the Raiders-Patriots Tuck Rule Game, which 15 years ago forever altered the NFL", "Best kick ever? That was the last great Rams team, not matter how their season ended. raidernationbaby: It warms my heart to hear you say that. [9] On September 23, Patriots defensive end Anthony Pleasant apparently forced Jets quarterback Vinny Testaverde to fumble,[10] but the call was overturned upon review and ruled an incomplete pass. What about Bill Belichick? It was a snowy day at Foxboro Stadium. The NFL is the only football league that has this Tuck Rule. The entire play was right in front of Ben Dreith and yet the flag stayed in the pocket. January 19, 2022 1:59 pm ET. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/14/AR2005101401828_2.html. at Wow. . Brady, who recently announced his retirement, is now a seven-time Super Bowl champion who . At least not right away. Thank you. You need to educate yourself before posting here again. Many feel it was a controversial play that allowed New England to move on, win their first Super Bowl and set the tone for all that have accomplished since. If we would have gotten the call the way it should have been, the Patriots would have never drove down and tied the game up, thus no overtime drive, and again no field-goal. One, the Patriots are still moving forward from that moment and two, someone has to track down that old bastard Dreith and beat the truth out of him about his officiating in that playoff game. Whatever patriot fans. Second, the Raiders had every opportunity to win that. Raider Nation should have sorrow about what has happend the past 10 years to a once storied franchise then a loss 10 years ago! It was the right call. How would that be a fumble? A pass should only be ruled incomplete if the ball comes loose in the actual act of passing the ball. The ball should not have to be loose in the act of passing for it to be ruled incomplete. A few plays later, Raiders defensive back Johnnie Harris intercepted a pass from Brady on the Patriots 41-yard line, but New England's defense managed to force a punt, which would be the final result of every following drive from either team until the end of the half. The season had been wild for the Patriots, who began the year 02 after veteran quarterback Drew Bledsoe suffered a sheared blood vessel in his chest[6] in the game against the New York Jets. There should also be some kind of rule that stops the Patriots from acquiring draft picks in one year, that turn out to be better the next. An intentional forward movement of an offensive players arm is considered the start of a forward pass, according to a former NFL rule that was implemented in 1999. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. What is the tuck rule in NFL and why is it controversial? philadelphia parking authority customer service phone number. No choice but to respect the officials probably correct decision. Defies every logic. Bradys was a fumble. Whatever raider fans. In fact it is typically encountered about once a year by each team in the league. 4 Reply Jamie_Naughright Geeze the moron Raider fans really come out over the tuck rule. So get over it, Charles Woodson. Brady pump faked, never saw or felt woodson coming from behind. Look at old game film highlights and you will never see a catch overturned that way. No shiz-nit sherlock!! In 1999, a new rule had been introduced, which eventually became known as the tuck rule: NFL Rule 3, Section 22, Article 2, Note 2. I said might. The end of Tom Brady's long career arrived Tuesday as the seven-time Super Bowl champion announced his retirement from the NFL after 22 years. If the Raiders were that great how come they couldnt stop the Pats on one of the following plays ? Yes, we have hit the 20-year anniversary of the famous infamous Tuck Rule game. If he gets hit while attempting to throw a pass then it would be incomplete as long as the ball goes forward. . If the ball lands in front of the QB, its an incomplete pass. You obviously have watched enough sports to know that there is a such thing called a momentum swing right? Any ref who cannot see that is a fumble with more than one look should not have a job as a ref. Yes maybe it was the correct rule or whatever, I'm not arguing that. The Jets tied the game with a field goal on that drive before going on to win 10-3. Watch the replay!He never threw the ball. All they simply had to do was have Rich Gannon kneel and the game was over. [13] The Pittsburgh Steelers voted against abolition, while two teams, the Patriots and Redskins, abstained from the vote. St. Louis went 14-2 that season and was outscoring opponents by 14.3 points a game. I know this play has caused Raider fans and many other fans significant consternation over the years. In this case, they clearly took a victory away from the Raiders. In the closing moments of the fourth quarter and with the Pats trailing by three, Brady received the snap and stepped back into the pocket to pass. Also, if the player has tucked the ball into his body and then loses possession, it is a fumble.". I might be better off looking it up. - Is the tuck rule, on the other hand, still in effect? In it's place, the following was added to the rule book: "If the player loses possession of the ball during an attempt to bring it back toward his body, or if the player loses possession after he has tucked the ball into his body, it is a fumble. While it appeared that Brady had tucked the ball back towards his body, the officials were not sure and ruled it a fumble so they could review the play. The Raiders were robbed of another shot at the AFC title and a potential trip to the suber bowl. After NFL owners voted 29-1 to repeal the controversial Tuck Rule at the annual meeting in Phoenix on Wednesday, it is no longer in effect. This rule is fine, its only the whining fans of teams that are unable to do their jobs well enough to win that want this rule changed. He's already completed his "pump" the ball has come back and touched his other hand. This is consistent with most NFL rules as the league tries to make as many rules applications as possible a simple black-white decision (think helmet-to-helmet contact). has raised the minimum level of assets under management for new clients to $50 million. The "Tuck Rule Game." It's a memory Raider Nation knows all too well. The game, played under a heavy snowfall, was the last at Foxboro Stadium. Stay classyAwesome post (especially like you putting god in your postMind you it was a little g since you are probably a church going man). It is the "Tuck" rule. It should have been inconclusive. I've brought it up before and gotten downvoted. Such a tough call. A ten year mental lapse thanks Mike! period. "Katniss, the girl who was on fire.", When I was younger, I scared my mother to death, the things I would blurt out about District 12, about the people who rule our country, Panem, from the far . And even Marshall Faulk started to decline after that 2001 season. Before you go spitting your bs about roughing the passer not being called, how about watching the replay again and again and again. The rule works; people have a hard time with it because they want to think the 2001 game was ruined by it. Regardless, the most common throws by far are those short positive-yardage attempts.". So what would have changed? They had already lost in the playoffs and Mike Pereira and his crew of crooked and biased referees can go straight to hell for their ignorance! May 5, 2022 2:22pm. I am so sick of hearing about the tuck rule. Brady began a passing motion, but then ceased, before tucking the ball with his left hand. 2013,What exactly does the tuck rule mean? The refs missed that play completely. An incomplete pass stops the clock and prevents the loss of yards from a sack. The call was overturned upon review and ruled an incomplete pass, with the tuck rule cited. ITS US AGAINST THE WORLD The rule makes sense the way it is, changing it would just create ambiguity. Dont let revisionist history fool you: This wasnt some great Oakland team that was destined to win it all. After the Patriots maintained possession, Brady completed a 13-yard pass to David Patten to the Raiders' 29. "That's the way the play was called," Belichick said. Tom Brady finally admits Tuck Rule play 'might have been a fumble'. Stanjamits simple if the Qb gets hit after a pump fake and loses the ball it is a fumble. The tuck rule was an exception to this rule. And having the help of replay, the ref ref who overturned the fumble should have been fired on the spot. Photos (and replay) clearly show Brady with both hands on the ball before its knocked out. THE 'tuck rule' in the NFL is regarded as one of the most controversial in sports history. Many thought it was a fumble, which would have essentially sealed the game for the away team. Jerry Jones believes Cowboys can keep Zeke and Pollard, NFL combine measurements for DBs: Full list of results, Jerry Jones believes Prescott can progress like Brady, NFL combine 2023 results tracker: Top performances, NFL combine 2023: Winners and losers from DB workouts, Report: Pollard to get franchise tag if deal isn't done. But after looking at replays the officials invoked the tuck rule, thus handing Brady back the ball and the chance to save the game. He then got hit and fumbled. Think Pereiras pension and/or benefits from his former employer may be lost in the mail? Gruden made a reference to the Tuck Rule game in his introductory press conference upon his return to the Raiders, turning to former Raiders cornerback Charles Woodson and saying "Brady fumbled that ball". 1:13 pm ET. But yeah I agree with you, nowadays at least it wouldn't be overturned with the whole evidence thing. They all need to be replaced and as far away from a football game as possible if they cant see thats a fumble. Unfortunately, The Tuck Rule won't be available for next-day streaming via Watch ESPN. If the decision had remained a fumble, it would have almost certainly sealed the game for Oakland. Plain and simple. "[16] With seconds left on the clock after the ensuing kickoff, the Raiders decided not to attempt to advance the ball, instead letting it go to overtime. Pereira is right there with Walt Coleman in my book. The Tuck Rule states, "When [an offensive] player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his arm starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body.". [5] In later interviews, Coleman stated that it was his explanation, not the reversal, that was in error; the ball was moving backwards when it was lost, but the tuck rule applied. This is referred to as the tuck rule because the ball leaving the quarterback's hands is considered a forward pass even if the quarterback intends not to pass the ball, but instead continues the forward motion to tuck the ball back into his body. Everyone acts like they didnt drive down the field and have Vinatieri kick one of the most difficult field goals in league history, followed by driving down the field in OT to get another score. I'm just curious as to how they reacted to review back then. The tuck rule was implemented so refs wouldnt have to define the exact moment that a QB has stopped throwing, and instead is tucking the ball. The NFL defended the call, but Bruce Allen, who ran the front office for the Raiders at the time of the game, said, "The rule itself doesn't bother me, but the way the rule is written, it was a fumble. I dont even think Cassel was tucking the ball. With under a minute remaining in regulation time, Patriots' placekicker Adam Vinatieri kicked a 45-yard field goal to tie the game at 13, sending the game into overtime. That's before and after the LOS so this would mean most passes would be contested on the field. While I'm not arguing with you, but I know the general thing now is that if there's not enough evidence but only a sliver of evidence to overturn it, they won't. The tuck rule is a smart rule, designed to eliminate controversy, and make it so officials dont have to spend time deciding what the intention of the thrower is. The "tuck rule" grew in prominence in 2002, when an apparent Tom Brady fumble on this play was called back because of the rule. people dont realize after that turnover the very next play would be a 3 kneeldowns and the game over, # The Tuck Rule was a rule in the National Football League (NFL) that stated that if a quarterback lost control of the ball while trying to bring it back to his body (and it was not because he fumbled it), it would be called an incomplete pass, not a fumble. This solution also solves intentional grounding. The Raiders went to the Super Bowl the next year, but were beaten by Gruden's Buccaneers, 4821 and the Raiders did not make the playoffs again until 2016. With 1:12 left in the first quarter, a 15-yard fair-catch interference penalty against Patriots defensive back Je'Rod Cherry at the end of Ken Walter's 39-yard punt gave Oakland a first down at midfield, where they drove to a 70 lead on Gannon's 13-yard touchdown pass to James Jett. Though honestly, if the Patriots win it all this year, Ill be way over that as well. Protect the ball and theres nothing to talk about. Updated. At all the Raider knuckleheads: But screen passes and checkdowns are relatively common. Pereira opined on the tuck rule because it was applied on Sunday, when Chiefs quarterback Matt Cassel went back to pass and dropped the ball when he was hit by Baltimores Lardarius Webb. It was the right call. @marinofreakout, you only show your total lack of football knowledge with this statement. (Of course raiders sold the most merchandise back then and where a very popular team ..the league was not about to put NE in the superbowl they would have lost $$$ at the time), As far as the tuck rule.. I am sure the rest of the world is a better place after seeing your post above. His arm was going forward, he saw the pressure and tried to pull it back and take the hit. Oh no, wait, Steelers fans would lose out then. Bullshit. If the Raiders pull out the Tuck Rule game, they are probably losing one of their next two games, and doing so in embarrassing fashion. The pain can still be felt. The Tuck Rule Victoria Saeli Sports 4.9 29 Ratings; A weekly football podcast hosted by Victoria (@dirtbagqueer) and Katie (@KatesOfHeaven). . The tuck rule was in place for several years before that game, it was not invented on the spot as you seem to think. Okay, now that this is figured out, what about spiking the football? It completely cheated the Raiders out of a title run. The NHL's version of the "tuck rule" hasn't drawn the most positive response from fans and certain players since it became something officials would finally crack down on this season.. helmet to helmet hits/ ridicilous fines/bs suspensions! But then, they wont have anything to whine about for the next ten years. After instant replay, referee Walt Coleman reversed this call, declared the play an incomplete forward pass, and gave possession back to New England. raidernationabby the rule is correct. The Patsies had no timeouts and the Raiders would have simply downed the ball to end the game. The owners abolished the rule with a 291 vote, with Pittsburgh Steelers the only team to vote against. Allen stated that he heard the Patriots' play call. sick and tired of Pereira, self-promoting pompous a$$, he would support such a change who cares. It was 10 years ago. If you watch the replay of Cassels arm (or Bradys for that matter) you can clearly see that his arm is moving forward when he loses possession. It was enforced to the letter of the law in 2001. Is hard reset only way to salvage Jets QB dilemma? Remember how you sucked in the Tampa Bay superbowl? On the field, referee Mike Carey ruled it a fumble. Raiders were the best team in the NFL from 2000-2003 WOULD OF BEEN LONGER PERHAPS IF IT WASNT FOR THAt SCUMBAG! On the field, referee Mike Carey ruled it a fumble. Elyasmmy earlier reply to you did not get posted like it should have. Tge play wasnt even important in the chefs game but changed nfl history in the raiders game. So if they rule its not a fumble then it should be ruled intentional grounding, with loss of that down, and ball placed at the spot of where the ball hits the ground. Brady was patting the ball. The Tuck Rulewas a controversial call that will be discussed for a very long time, but its impact on the league, outside of that 2001 season, is entirely overblown.